Scripts, Talk Tracks, & Messaging: How to Keep Marketing & Sales Happy w/ Jocelyn Quall

The Sales Lift
Episode #61: Scripts, Talk Tracks & Messaging: How to Keep Marketing & Sales Happy w/ Jocelyn Quall

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[00:00:00] Tyler: Hey, Sales Lift Nation, it's your host. Tyler Lindley. Today, I have Jocelyn Quall on the podcast. Hey Jocelyn, how are you today? Hey time. Great. How are you doing well, Jocelyn is the Senior Director of Marketing and Sales Development at Reside out in Woodinville, Washington. And today we are going to be talking about sales scripts.

Can I call you Joc or Jocelyn? I guess we're good. So I'll probably call you Joc throughout, but Jocelyn sales scripts, like where do you land on sales trips? I know you've had an evolution about how you personally have approached sales scripts coming from a marketing background and now leading sales development.

Where do you land on sales scripts?

[00:00:41] Jocelyn: That where I started on sales scripts is the four-letter word for me. I'm not going to lie. And to your point in the last six months come a long way on them. And I find them pretty important. In fact, I think one of the first questions you asked me when we started working together, how do you feel about scripts?

And I was like, love them. Let's do it. So I started. Unsure about scripts, because I think it can make people sound robotic and monotonous. And from a marketing perspective, you have to talk to people in a way that works for them. And you want them to want to like you and to buy from you. So I was a little bit nervous and weary of screen.

But I think I've come to the conclusion that really happens. Like it's related to what you do with said script and being able to craft a message and then having you understand it and work with it, I think is really what's key. Right?

[00:01:29] Tyler: Totally agree. And when we think about scripts, I feel the best. They are a great fit for people that are especially folks newer to sales, because it's good to give some direction.

I read this one time. Who would you rather. Be dictating the message. Somebody who just started at your company a week ago, or people that have been there for years who really understand the background of your company and the ICP and the buyer persona. Who do you want building that messaging? It's obvious, like you want somebody that's experienced.

And so did you play a hand in that having had, you've been at reside now for a little while now, did you play a big hand in those scripts and that develop.

[00:02:02] Jocelyn: Yeah. So it'll be seven years in December, which sounds like a lifetime to me at this point. But yeah, I played a pretty key role. So from crafting kind of the branding and the message of our portfolio brands and our company, and then just trying to adapt the value proposition in the direction that the exact one to go to into a way that the sales team can use that to speak to a variety of clients in a way that works and that they can make their own.

And then with the SDR team, obviously like working to craft that and. Short quick hit. What's your elevator pitch? I don't know how many you tell me. I'm excited to have on the phone. Five someone's attention. So how do you get that point across really quick without losing someone, but keep the essence and the value of the brand

[00:02:42] Tyler: intact.

Exactly. Yeah. And you only have a few seconds. You've got to have something there punchy on the front end. Obviously. It's not just the words. It's also, how is your STR team communicating those words as well as you've built out the sales development team there at reside. How did you introduce those scripts?

And then how did that process go of making sure that they're not only like saying the words, but saying the words in the right way.

[00:03:05] Jocelyn: I see as a big partnership and a lot of work we did with you to really make sure we were using the right buzzwords and getting there quicker. Like to tell stories so I could talk all day, but we don't have that much time.

So in order to get that essence across, like we have the handbook, we have the important scripts. We did the training and the coaching up and ran through it. And you guys did a ton, a ton of role play that really comes into it and running it over and over and over again. And honestly, I can't tell you the amount of times that we sat back and were like, that doesn't sound right.

That doesn't sound like you can make it your own. Does this feel right? Are you sure this feels right, really am like honing that and drilling that down with our best yards or with Alabama's case. And I think it's just really important to run through that until it becomes something that makes sense and always remembering that no matter how long you've been added, I think it's important to run through that again.

Does it still sound right? Are we in tune with what's happening? There's a pandemic out there. Do we need to adapt anything? Are we tone deaf? Are we approaching our target market or a prospect of clients correctly? And I think it's important to always say in bull and flex on the message that's going out

[00:04:10] Tyler: there.

I totally agree. Yeah. I always tell new reps that these are the words we're saying today. Don't get stuck on the words because the whole world's going to change. And then you're going to be saying different words. And Kobe was definitely a great example. Everything changes. You're like people leave jobs.

The industry changes the company pivots and is selling a different type of product or to a different person. So you can't get stuck on the words and it should be dynamic. How have you introduced probably an initial script here to new SDR, but then how have you evolved that over time? What does that evolution of the script look like?

How has it remained dynamic? The

[00:04:44] Jocelyn: sheer nature of building up a sales dev team from starting in April. And we're sitting here like end of couple of months later, made me go back through the paces again. Remind me like reposition it. Think about the value proposition. Where's the company today in 2021, whereas hospitality travel.

What are we doing? What's realistic. Where are we trying to go? So what are we saying today versus how are we with that? Excluding what we're doing tomorrow, I guess, if you will. And so running through those paces again and being in charge of kind of crafting that, bounce it around quite a few times, and I'm going to be honest.

Like I was like, Hey, you say this. He said it. And I was like, that's not right, but you made that bag. Let's try that again. And then I think it's really important to, do you believe what you're saying? Do you understand what you're saying? Because you're still new here. So even in your first 90 days, your first six months, like really starting to get.

Comfortable with what you're saying. I think that was a huge focus for us too, with the new SDR team. And last week, my biggest thing is who are you talking to take the potential client out of the equation? That's like, you're talking to your neighbor, your grandma, your mom, your data could be anyone like someone who's not in the industry of what do you do for a living.

What are you selling? Stop selling, start talking to people like they're human beings. And I think at the end of the day, you could say anything you want. And obviously from a marketing perspective, I need you to stay on brand and on message. But from a sales perspective, we're all humans. So talk to someone like human and, you know, that's half the battle in my opinion.

[00:06:11] Tyler: And that helps us to. Scripted less robotic, which can be an issue because I think newer reps, especially like SDRs are typically newer to sales. They can, they want to be by the book. I want to do everything just right. Whereas do you think that they should say, should your SDRs on your team, do you want it to be word for word or is it more of a script, more of a guidance like, Hey, this is a theme of what I want you to say, but then make it your own.

[00:06:35] Jocelyn: I think it's funny, the way you asked that, because from a marketing perspective, I'd say like capture the essence and then a couple, like, he, things like cost savings time, right? Like the big buzzwords that I don't care who you are and what business you're in. Like you want to make more money. You want to save money.

You want to save time or you want to work more efficiently, smarter, not harder, but. The same time from a sales perspective, like there are just certain things that work, right? Like the numbers don't lie. The tactics don't lie. The strategies, like when I was tasked with building up the sales dev team, I started reading and like throwing myself into research and it, it's hard to argue with research.

It's hard to argue with every company has done X and they're successful because of it. So when it comes to a script that, especially on the SDR side of things, It's like how you kick off your call, that upfront contract, asking permission, those types of things. Those are like the hardest things. I feel like our new SDRs challenge you on almost like a, it just doesn't feel right.

I don't know. I'm not comfortable with it. No one enters the conversation could go back to my example of talking to your grandma. Hey grandma, you have five minutes. We don't want to talks like that in real life, technically, but it works. And it's just a matter of sheer respect, like marketing and sales is about hitting people.

In the right way, hitting people at the right time so that they hear your message and SDRs, you're likely hitting people with the right message. Hopefully if you've done your prospecting, but it might not be the right time. So asking that permission upfront is just so important and key. So I think that's one of the biggest, most important parts of the script.

And if I'm being candid, like in the first 90 days, or however far I'm into this program, now, the areas where the STR pushes back the most is probably the most essential because it's probably the most uncomfortable, which means that's likely to be. Missing piece of the puzzle that you really need to hone in and get so that you can improve your prospecting efforts, recalls your activity, et

[00:08:21] Tyler: cetera.

Yup. I totally agree. And you bring up a good point there about, I like, I like asking for permission just because I feel like it's and I am from the south. Yeah. So maybe it's just how I was raised. You open the door. Yes, ma'am thank you please. But, but it's, I just feel like it's courteous. Cause like you said, like when we're doing.

When we're doing outbound, we are interrupting someone and you, we don't know if there is that time. And I feel like if you don't have the time, if you don't have the permission, like you think about permission marketing was Seth Godin back in the day. If you don't have the permission to pitch to someone, then that pitch is probably going to fall on deaf ears.

So you can just Ram through with that. But if they're just zoning out and they're going to, you know, zone off then, is that even worth? Is that the right time to be giving? Yeah,

[00:09:04] Jocelyn: you can like be upfront agenda. God forbid you spend 30 minutes on the phone and talk to someone you get to the end. And they're like, that's not at all what I felt we were doing here or a little bit.

I have all these other questions and you were completely off the mark. There's no point I get told my SDR team. Okay. It's a conversation for a reason. You need to be adding value to the person you're talking to. You need to leave that person better than you found them. And if you're not doing that, even if it's not a fit at the end of the day, and you've qualified them out, it's all about being human, right?

It's all about developing those relationships. So if you're not leaving them better than you found them, then you have not done your job. Even if you qualified them out as not a qualified opportunity. That's fine. I'd rather you. Qualify out and have people like, oh, I know so-and-so or, oh, and so's moving, or everyone works for someone.

So that's the other thing we can't forget is it's so much about who I am. Is it just an industry is in general and business. So you never know like that person on the other end of the line might not be the right person for you and the solution that you're selling or the services that you're selling, but someone they know most likely.

[00:10:08] Tyler: Yep. No, I totally agree. And you talk a little bit about like, you're starting to allude to there's different types of scripts, right? Like we've, we've been talking about the cold call script. Obviously, if someone's making a cold call, it's the first time they've ever spoken to him, there's also the discovery call and, and we've been, we've been working on like the upfront contract and setting that agenda setting kind of the parameters for the call.

I feel like it's just as important to have a script in both settings. Right? Whether it's a cold call or discovery call or a follow-up call, do you think scripts are effective in all of those calls or, or what are you, where do you. On that

[00:10:38] Jocelyn: I think scripts are effective in the sense that there's a certain for our business.

At least there's a certain level of qualifying that needs to happen to decide. You know how we can best serve the client. And if we haven't decided that, then there's really no point in this pursued relationship because there's no way for us to add any value to what you're doing. So I think scripts are important because there are certain key things I need my STRs to find out before we can pass something over to sales and or for me to feel like we are doing our job.

That being said, if you're just trying to hit five qualifying question, And you're not listening to what the person is saying on the other end of the phone, or they've already answered it in passing and you're not reacting to what they're saying. You're not actually having an actual conversation. You're just trying to hit your mark at that point.

I'm also equally uninterested, right? In having in listening to your discovery calls. Cause at that point, my company, my coaching is going to be like, Wait. Cool. You answered five questions, but do you know what they need? You got what you wanted from them, but what did they get from you? So I think to that end, yes and no is my answer on scripts.

Like I still know like a script done the wrong way is a waste of time as script used as a tool and an asset. Using the right way adds

[00:11:54] Tyler: value. Yep. I agree. And I think for me, scripts are so important in setting the tone for the call. If you can use a script to set the tone for the cold call or just set the tone for the discovery call, like on the front end, setting that upfront contract, asking for permission and giving like a pitch and starting a discussion like that to me is where scripts are most effective from there.

It becomes, I think scripts become a lot looser once you get past that intro of the call. But for me, the intro is the biggest part. If we can just like figure. Why we're here and do we have time and space for this conversation? And here's what we're trying to accomplish. Whether it's a cold call or a discovery call, that's half the battle, right?

If you can teach an SDR how to do that, or an ag or who. Then that's like a great place to start. At least they're starting the conversations, right. If they screw it up from there, he can work on that. But I feel like starting the call and starting the conversation in control of the call is important. And it's tougher, I think for some new arrestee, ours to learn how to do for sure.

Yeah. So

[00:12:47] Jocelyn: in our worlds in general, we're typically always in marketing and sales, you're always asking for permission in some way, right? You're adding someone to an email marketing list. You're always giving them an opportunity to opt out if you are. The only thing that might not quite ask for permission in the marketing world.

And I'm sure it's a heated topic, so I don't want to broach it too far, but those dang pop-up ads, you get to a website and be like, Hey, Hey,

[00:13:08] Tyler: sign up for my newsletter. It's right in your face now. And you're

[00:13:10] Jocelyn: like searching for the X. Like, how do I close out?

[00:13:13] Tyler: It's always hidden too. Right? It's like the same color as everything else.

Well, and I

[00:13:17] Jocelyn: swear, sometimes people built them so that they show up maybe 10 seconds right after. So you're sitting there for 10 seconds and I'm like, and it's smart. I'm a marketer. I fall for my tricks all the time. So I'm going to figure it out. Do I need this? Should I put my information in here?

Absolutely. And then I also, you also sit back and wonder what behavior did I do before this that showed you some sort of buying sign or at least an engaging sign. How did I engage with you in some other platform or medium that let your website, and I'll just serve up this pop-up right now that I can not get off my screen.

And I think that's sales too, right? We're calling on leads. But somehow somewhere would be engaged with us in some way and or your prospecting. So you're not calling Joe Schmoe down the road who you hope has to relocate X amount of employees on a global scale. And you just hope we have the tools and resources now to be smart about how we do it so that we're not.

Insulting people by reaching out to them who literally never in a million years need our services. Right. So,

[00:14:11] Tyler: yeah, exactly. Which that, to me, it comes back to identifying who's our ICP, who's our buyer persona. And then setting up those buying signals. What is that? Those intent signals, the buying signals are, they interacted with us five years ago, whatever that looks like you're reaching out with some context and that sense, should anybody really be a truly cold lead anymore?

Should everybody be at least lukewarm? Or do you think like there is still room. Truly just cold outreach. Should everyone be lukewarm or.

[00:14:36] Jocelyn: That's a good question. I think that everyone's probably a little lukewarm they'll act cold. I don't know what you're no, I don't say, I think people are probably lukewarm nowadays, especially if we're doing our job.

I think that there's definitely room for data dumping and other things like trying to hit some numbers and trying to make things look good. I do think that that is behavior, right? There's a lot of like cleanups sometimes that has to happen and especially post pandemic and we're in hospitality, right?

We're in a mobility world, world of relocation. So you can imagine that the landscape in August of 2021 looks very different than it did in August of 2019. So everyone's dealing with those changes. And so whether it's a data input error, or whether it's to your point, you alluded to earlier just mobility within the industry just changes, grow changes, unfortunate changes, right?

Everyone's in this. New normal that whatever we're calling it now. So there's just a lot of people that are on the move. But again, even if you hit someone who's no longer somewhere, we've seen it before with STR like he's getting referred to someone who might've taken this job or to someone else within the company.

So just be human talk to someone like you can be like, you want to talk to them and add some value and you'll reap the reward of that. No matter what, even if someone's yeah,

[00:15:48] Tyler: a hundred percent. One thing I want to make sure we touch on is. The fact that you were just a marketing leader and then you added sales development as well.

So now you're doing both marketing and sales development. Talk to me about that transition to doing both. Was that natural for you mean just, what was that like? And then what is your day-to-day like, like how do you split up your time, your duties now that you own both marketing and sales development in your organization?

[00:16:11] Jocelyn: I've been here. I would say that being in marketing, I consider myself in sales regardless. I just think it's important to be able to have a conversation with people. Talk about what you do every day. I naturally ask a lot of questions and actually talk a lot too. So I didn't feel like in my day-to-day, that's just what I do as a person, but from the marketing side of things, I've been traditionally marketing and then we've had a sales team have always worked obviously very closely with them because I believe marketing's job is to help sales.

Knock the door down versus detract from the sale. Again, no point do I want the website or the flyer? That's pretty old school or the email or the digital campaign to kill the sale for sales. Uh, you want to enhance it or be like, oh, I've heard about that. You or your, the damn pop-up ad that won't go away.

So I've always worked very closely with them. And then in the last year, after, when I came back after quarantine and we came back to the office, But there wasn't a lot of too much of marketing going on for us. So I was helping us revising like our go-to-market strategy for this year and our sales, like our client demos and pitch decks.

And to that end, the infamous script for sales, which I pushed back on quite a bit. So this is back in like January of 2021. And I think like where we gravitated towards was more of like the talk tracks that associated with how we were positioning a messaging and our brand mission on the slides. So associating.

And visual representation of data with the message behind the scenes, and then the talk tracks that go with it. And then as we were doing that and going through our sales team, I'll demo the executive team just to test the message, test the slides and just really see where if we had any gaps, I felt like the biggest gap was just the knowledge gap.

And I felt like people sounded really relatively scripted on that first round. And I felt like we were fielding a lot. Questions from the team about different developments that we're doing, like our tech and APIs and different value props and how our supply chain works and all these different things.

So I just took on the responsibility of having everyone send me their questions and going to the various departments internally to get those subject matter experts and then trained up, or at least in part of knowledge, or just allowed for that open. Environment for them to ask whatever questions they wanted to, without any judgment and just try to train up and in doing so, I just started to, I don't know, demonstrate value and just show up in a different way than I had prior to this.

So then our fiscal year started in April and I was promoted and given the chance to start sales dev, which I know. Most times I think sits under sales and this time now sits under marketing. So I just like to think that all lead gen and growth demand effort have sits under me. And so we'll take you from a perfect stranger to lukewarm, to warm, qualify, and pass off to the sales team.

That's how I

[00:19:00] Tyler: got here. And what is the, how has the sales team reacted given that sales development didn't really exist, right? There was just marketing and sales. And then you created sales development live in between the two groups. A pretty good transition for the sales team. Have they been excited about it and has there been some conflict or anything, or what does that look like now?

[00:19:19] Jocelyn: Conflict everyone's been pretty excited and our STR team is also like a pretty great team if I can speak highly for my team, but no it's been pretty good, obviously like a little bit of a learning curve, just because we've all, everyone's still like prospecting and qualifying their own accounts and working through that.

But we have one dedicated SDR. Sole mission is to just crank through daily activities. And we've seen quite a bit of success, like in our first 30 years, 30 years, it's not quite . And STR program is able to add 7 million new qualified opportunities to the pipeline, which has been great. And so it's just. In an industry that obviously was so impacted by the pandemic.

And that continues to be with mass mandates and vaccines and border closures and everything. It's nice. And it's a breath of fresh air to see that the demand is actually still out there. You just have to get to them and you have to get to them first for, you have to get to them with a better value prop.

We just have to get to them. Any value and just talk to them right. And just see what they need. So,

[00:20:17] Tyler: yeah, a hundred percent totally agree. Josh, thanks so much for your insights today. How can my listeners find you online? If they want to learn more?

[00:20:24] Jocelyn: Yeah, no, thanks for having me find me on LinkedIn, Jocelyn.

Yeah. Or you can check us out on, stay with reside.com as well. If you have any global mobility needs, one of my teammates will reach out to you,

[00:20:36] Tyler: for sure, for sure. And we will link to both of those in the show notes. So if you want to connect with Josh on LinkedIn, definitely connect with her. Thank you so much for joining Jocelyn.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for listening to today's show, you can find all the links discussed and the show notes@thesaleslift.com. That's the T H E sales, S a L E S. Lift L I F T. Dot com have questions for me, email me@tyleratthesaleslift.com. We look forward to seeing you back here next week, and we hope today's show brings you the sales lift.

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